How can I tell what condition a sax is in?


So you may have found a saxophone you are interested in. When you go and look at it, you already know the basic parts of the saxophone and general problem areas, such as rods and pads. This is just the beginning of determining what condition a saxophone is in. As with a car, you want to "look under the hood" to see what kind of maintenance, repair, and care has been given to this horn. There are very subtle things to look for that can change the value of a horn significantly. The more horns you look at, the better equipped you will be to know exactly what you are looking at.

General Condition

Looking at a horn when you open the case will immediately give you an impression of what kind of life the horn has lead. If it gleams and looks well cared for, you can guess that it was rarely played or treated exceptionally well. If you open the case and detect a foul odor and find green deposits all over the horn, chances are this horn isn't the one for you.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, so don't let a bad smell turn you away until you ask some important questions about the horn and its condition. I will go into greater detail about these items as the section progresses so you can try and determine if the horn's current owner is telling you the straight story on the saxophone in front of you. One note of caution. If the owner says "this horn belonged to...", be skeptical, unless the owner has positive proof. In most cases, truly famous players' horns either wind up staying in the family or going to a close friend or musical associate. Chances are that the one you are looking at isn't the one Bird used to play "Star Eyes" on the "Swedish Scnapps" album.

This gold-plated Selmer Balanced Action alto really did belong to Woody Herman's lead altoist, Sam Marowitz

These are the questions the owner should be able to answer. If the owner doesn't know some of this information, chances are the person is a dealer or has not owned the horn for that long. If the person can't answer any of these questions and acts nervous, the horn may be stolen, in which case you can ask for the serial number and call the police to have them check it out.

Questions to ask the owner of that vintage horn...

  1. Is the horn in good playing condition?
  2. Does the horn play reasonably well in tune in all of the registers?
  3. Does the horn still have its original, factory finish?
  4. What percentage of the finish is still intact?
  5. When was the last complete service and repad?
  6. What is the exact serial number?
  7. What is the model name or number?
  8. How long have you had the saxophone?
  9. Who owned it before you?
  10. Do you know any specific information such as manufacture date? If so, where did you get this info?
  11. Do you play it regularly, or has it been sitting for an extended period of time?
  12. Has the horn ever been seriously damaged?
  13. Has the horn ever had dents removed?
  14. Does the horn currently have dents?
  15. Why are you selling this horn?
  16. How did you determine the value of the horn*

* This question is useful for people who are asking an unusually high amount for a horn. Case in point, I once called on a Conn alto listed for $1000. I assumed it was an extraordinary 6M, but instead it was a Mexican-manufactured student model. Apparently she was told by the local music store it was worth $1200, so she was going easy on the price. Actual market value on the horn was close to $300.

The Body

The body is the most important part of the saxophone. It needs to be in good condition in order for the sax to play well. If the horn is dented or damaged, pads may not seat correctly or unusual tonal anomilies can occur. The body should be smooth and round. There should not be flat spots or raised, bumpy spots. Some small dents, called ping dents, are fine. These usually occur on the bow and are a result of careless players whacking the horn on a chair or other items. Small (less than 5mm across) dents will not affect the sound of the horn, but excessive dents should be figured into the price.

1938 Selmer Balanced Action alto saxophone with ping dents, possible evidence of a dent-pull by the thumb rest and general lacquer wear

There are ways to tell if a saxophone has suffered any major dents. The best way is to look for spots where there are vertical lines of distortion in the lacquer. These are caused by the technique used to remove dents from a saxophone. A repair person puts a metal ball on the end of a metal rod, then slides the saxophone onto the rod. The sax is then pushed gently down onto the ball and rocked back and forth. This pushes the dent back up, but also distorts the lacquer where the dent is. The lines are a result of the rocking motion used to pull the dent. On horns that are plated, this will be harder to see. Just look for any abnormal distortion in the finish. Chances are if it looks strange, the horn may have taken a hit at sometime. It's just like looking for Bondo on a used car.

Another facet of the body is the soldering. Solder is used to hold all the parts onto a saxophone. You should never really see solder unless the horn has been damaged and repaired at some time. If you see lots of solder globs on the horn, consider it a warning sign.

 

These are REALLY bad solder jobs

Chances are, the horn has been repaired by someone who is not qualified. On some horns, especially those manufactured by Martin, the tone holes are soldered on instead of drawn from the metal of the body. This can be a real challenge for repair techs, because when the horn is heated up, sometimes the solder comes loose and the tone holes actually fall off the horn. This can be a repair nightmare and can cause a great deal of expense. When looking around the tone holes, be sure and look for solder. It might not hurt to ask of the tone holes are drawn or soldered.

On the subject of tone holes, there is a controversial technique used on some horns to try and even out the pad seating and intonation. This process involves physically filing down the metal on the tone hole. Although this may seem like a good idea to some repair persons, in my opinion it is not. This process leads to the degredation of integrity of the tone hole metal and can eventually make a tone hole unusable. The worst danger is that the repair person will take off too much metal in the process. Once the metal is gone, you can't go back. When you look at the tone holes, make sure there are no pads actually touching the body of the horn, especially on the palm keys. The pads should always rest on top of the tone hole, and never touch the main body of the instrument!

Finish

The finish of the saxophone is the subject of a great debate. Does the finish actually affect the tonal characteristics of the horn? In my experience, the type of finish does affect the timbral characteristics, although not in an extreme way. The metal that the horn is made of seems to make a much greater difference than the finish used. The one difference in the way the finish affects the horn is in the case of relacquering. This is not because a new layer of lacquer has been added, but because the old layer of lacquer must first be stripped off the horn through a buffing process which can remove precious metal from the body and tone holes.

Finish also significantly affects the value of a horn. If a horn is gold plated, it is worth more than a horn that is silver plated. If a horn is silver plated, it is worth more than one that is lacquered. If a horn has its original finish, it is worth more than one that doesn't. As a buyer, you need to determine if the horn you are looking at is what the person selling it says it is. I have been told many, many times that a horn was gold plated when it was actually lacquer. If I didn't know what gold plating looked like, I could have easily been fooled. Here are the ways to determine if a horn is what they say it is:

Gold Plating

This is a hard determination to make without the experience of seeing a gold plated horn, although a good way to tell is to compare the color to any gold jewelry you may be wearing. Lacquer is bright and brassy, or dark and coppery looking. Gold has an unmistakable yellow, muted quality to it. Also, since gold plating cannot be directly applied to brass, there must be a layer of silver plate under the gold plate for the gold to "stick" to. Look for areas where the gold may be wearing off. You should see silver around those areas. If all you see is brass, be wary. Also, there are only a few models which were actually gold plated. The section above about vintage saxophones named several professional models by name. All of these models had a gold plate option available. The most common gold plated horns are Bueschers and Conns. A lot of Buescher True Tone saxophones are gold plated. Also, plating on vintage horns is often done in "satin finish." This means that the finish looks sand blasted (matte) instead of shiny, like satin. Certain parts of the bell may be shiny while the rest of the horn is satin finish. Lacquered horns will never have this appearance.

Silver plating

Silver plating is easy. If it is tarnished and black, it's silver! A well-polished silver plated saxophone will still have some black tarnish on it around the posts, even if it is shiny and not satin finish. If it is silver looking and has no tarnish, and looks REALLY shiny with a slightly black reflection, it's nickel plated, not silver. Also, nickel plating flakes off, instead of wearing off evenly like silver. On a silver plated horn, you may see brass showing through where the silver is evenly worn and the wear spots will have smooth edges, not jagged.

Original Lacquer

This is the hardest thing to determine about a saxophone. Even trained eyes can be fooled by a good relacquering job. Some dealers even go so far as to re-engrave a horn so it looks brand new. There are some good ways to tell if a horn has been relcquered, especially for certain models. Generally, the best way is to use common sense. If the horn is from 1924 and has shiny lacquer, it's not original. Old lacquer develops a dark hue and inevitably wears down in places where it is in contact with skin, clothing and the case. Also, if the horn looks buffed or has "scour" marks on it, it is not original. Original horns will have sharp, clear engraving with solid edges and clean lines. All of the writing will be easy to read, and the serial number will be completely legible.

Some possible clues of a relacquered horn are:

It's hard to see, but this 1950 Selmer Super Balanced Action alto has been relacquered... notice the shallow engraving on the top part of the bow

If the horn shows some of these signs, it may not be original. If you suspect it is not, don't be afraid to question the selling party. If there is a specific reason for some anomaly, perhaps they can explain it.  If you don't receive a good answer, you may want to keep looking.  

Rods and Pads

Both of these have been touched on before. Basically, you need to make sure that the rods are not overly pliable and do not move back and forth. Good rods will be strong with almost no play side-to-side between the supporting posts. Also, there should never be rust by the screws or ends of the rods. Rust in these spots means that the rod is water-damaged and will eventually need to be replaced if possible. Sometimes it is not possible to replace a rod -- it depends on the model. This can be the end of an otherwise perfect sax.

Pads are simple enough. They should be soft, with no rips or tears, and should cover the hole completely. Also, pads should have some type of resonator on them, either plastic or metal.

  Selmer resonator pad with brown plastic resonator

 

Metal resonator pad

Pads without resonators can lead to a "stuffy" or muffled sound and should be avoided at all cost. Some repair technicians use these non-resonator type pads because they are cheaper than the other type. Certain horns, such as early Bueschers, use pads which require metal snap-on resonators that hold the pad in the key cup.

The neck

The neck is a very sensitive part of the horn. Neck damage can be an elusive and troublesome problem.

Necks are important -- Just ask any ostrich!

The neck should be completely smooth with no dents. The neck should not have any kinks in the metal. A common and sad misfortune to befall necks is the "pull-down syndrome." This comes from inserting the neck into the horn, then putting the mouthpiece on afterwards. Sometimes a careless player will pull down on the neck while it is inserted in the horn and cause it to bend down and split the metal. This is the kiss of death for a neck. Sometimes this damage can be repaired, but usually it cannot.

The neck should be the correct one for that horn. If there is a serial number on the neck, make sure it matches the serial number of the body. Also, the neck should usually have the same color of finish (there are some exceptions, such as the King Super 20 which has a silver neck) and should have matching identifying marks. If it is a Buescher Aristocrat, and there is a big "S" on the octave key on the neck, then you have the wrong neck.

Other things

There are, no doubt, other considerations which I omit here. The bottom line is to make sure the horn looks like it is in good shape. You also want to make sure the sax looks like a horn you want to play. Don't judge a horn solely on its looks. Some of the most ugly, worn-looking horns are also the best playing horns. A horn that has no dents and has 50% of its original lacquer probably plays very well -- otherwise it wouldn't have a good body with a lot of finish missing. Playing a saxophone will add wear and tear. There is no way around this problem. In fact, some players' natural body chemistry reacts with the finish of their horn and can remove finish or metal at a much faster rate. The condition and the sound are the most important factors.

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